Also, gonna post the crowdfunding link for Samuel Tunick, the American protestor facing federal charges for allegedly giving a DHS officer a GrapheneOS duress password:
I got a Pixel 10 during prime day and installed GrapheneOS with Cape for the provider. So far, it's been mostly great. The only setback, for me, is the lack of support for tap to pay. I haven't been able to get any wallet app to work. I keep my iphone with minimal service mainly to still have tap to pay and do facetime with my book club.
I've tried two things. The free version is, I've stuck a card which supports tap to pay inside my phone case. Big brain time, I know, but it actually works reasonably well. Many modern card phone cases now put shielding in (they didn't used to), which on one level I appreciate, but it limits its utility in this particular use case. I haven't tried one of the current cases to see if the shielding can be easily removed. A thin, flat card with etched/printed numbers is better than one with stamped/raised numbers.
Beyond that, I've been quite happy with Garmin Pay. The watch itself doesn't have a mic or LTE radio, I leave it on airplane mode the vast majority of the time, and it works without the phone nearby. As privacy-hostile-device privacy policies go, Garmin has one of the less offensive ones. I run the Garmin apps in the Owner profile's private space.
I've never had it not work for payment in years of using it, and in fact, at one one payment kiosk I tried to use Apple Pay for a particular large purchase when it made sense to, the kiosk refused repeatedly, but then accepted Garmin Pay.
Their lowest-end devices still don't support it, but I think you can get into it for an MSRP of about $250, and they tend to discount at all of the predictable times. Also, eBay.
Re: FaceTime, there's a way to do it from Android if you're invited (I don't think you can initiate it), but I haven't messed with it in years. See if you can get a good privacy book for normies on the agenda and suggest moving to Signal during the discussion.
I switch between an iPhone and a GrapheneOS phone. I have a garmin watch and never thought to use it for tap to pay. I’m dumb. Setting this up this evening
I got a new Pixel 10 Pro a few months ago and immediately installed GrapheneOS. It's all been good, but I can no longer use Strava on that phone and I'm looking for a Strava replacement.
As far as tap-to-pay goes, I still carry around a few credit cards with RFID chips, which I trust more than any mobile payment method.
I have a Pixel 7 Pro and I've been considering reflashing with GrapheneOS. I bought a Garmin watch which does tap-to-pay to deal with the loss of that feature.
How is the camera on GrapheneOS compared to the stock Pixel 10? Do your banking apps work without playing cat-and-mouse games?
Default camera app is decent and has imo all the basic necessities. You could obviously install the Google camera app and use that if you're after the software features like AI enhancement etc.
Got 3 banking apps (Europe) and they work without a hitch or complaint since installing over 3 years ago. I still use physical cards though so tap-to-pay is a no but I was never interested in that.
What I've seen many people do is install the Google Camera app and turn off network permissions for the application so it cannot send any data to Google.
I have a garmin but my banks don't suppose it for tap.
There are a few settings you have to adjust for the camera to be any good. I thought it was trash until this weekend when I found the settings. The default has quality at 95% and has "highest photo resolution" toggled off. The stock camera app doesn't seem to let you set the resolution specifically.
I use Varo and Sofi. Both apps work on my phone. The only app I have had a specific problem with was the MyQ app, but there is a workaround for that one.
I added a ratgdo to my garage door opener and use that with Home Assistant (and wireguard to my phone) instead of MyQ, so that wouldn't be a problem.
It's probably worth doing, but I have about three and a half years of data / setup on my phone and I'd have to wipe that all out. I wouldn't permanently lose data, but I did spend a good amount of time setting up my home screen, etc. It's a big leap! :-)
I haven't noticed the battery life being bad or good. So I guess it is fine. My other phone is an iphone 17 pro max. I feel like the battery degrades at about the same rate on both phones, but I use the pixel more.
Similar experience, so i just use my garmin watch to pay. Similar compatibility as google pay, but since it runs entirely on the watch it does not check against play integrity.
As honeypots go (I'm only joking, well, half-joking), Cape's pretty great on a lot of levels.
I'm glad Cape has competition and hope Phreeli succeeds, but the time when I'd happily contribute to anything he starts is long gone. The substantial credibility he genuinely earned has finally been fully spent, at least for me, but I do hope it becomes a viable option.
Is there any hope of Verizon's network being added to your coverage? I spend a lot of time in pretty remote places and Cape's coverage is up there with its pricing in terms of being a major barrier to retention.
Cape has SIM swap protection and IMSI rotation. As far as I know, Phreeli doesn't. Phreelie just promises not to collect, use or sell your data but doesn't seem to have any actual privacy tools like Cape does.
I do have to say that if you're interested in privacy, tap to pay or even a credit card is the opposite of that. Cash would be the way to go for private transactions.
The transaction isn't between you and your banking app. It's between your bank and a load of proprietary Google shitware that Google cajoled Visa and MasterCard into accepting as a replacement for an actual card.
You don't want tap-to-pay to work because tap-to-pay requires a bunch of proprietary shitware in order for banks to trust it. It's basically like saying Netflix won't work because of Widevine DRM. Just tap your actual bank card, it's more secure anyway. Or your other, non-secure phone.
Stop doing this. Yes, I want tap-to-pay to work. I don't want to be told I don't want that; I want it to work without the proprietary attestation garbage.
Then I suggest sending an angrily worded letter to Visa, or Mastercard. They are in charge of how cards work, and they say you can use a real card, or a pile of proprietary Google shitware, or a pile of proprietary Apple shitware, and nothing else. So you can install one of those - Google and Apple won't let you - or use a card.
Can I suggest putting your card between your phone and your phone case?
Given how long I've been using Graphene, this is not a bad idea also because there has been increasing pressure from governments clamping down on privacy solutions
Same here. This situation is so mind-bogglingly ridiculous that I don't know how anybody takes GrapheneOS seriously. I mean, let's say I wanted to buy a big airplane but I don't like Boeing. Airbus looks pretty good and they invite me to their factory to pick out a plane. But then they insist I fly to their factory on a Boeing plane. I'd assume they were joking, and then they say "Really, we're serious."
You can always buy an used Pixel. GOS only supports phones with hardware that they deem secure enough, and Google is currently the only manufacturer that makes phones that match their requirements[1], with upcoming Motorola phones that also support or even come with GOS installed coming out next year. I find this point so obvious that I can't understand people making comments like "can't take them seriously": you make security/privacy OS, having insecure hardware that compromises the whole project would simply not make any sense. Ask other manufacturers to do better.
This. I bought an open box Pixel for a mild discount. I have a friend that used to work at Best Buy. He said so many people would try to switch from iPhone to Pixel, but decide they didn't like it and return the phone.
The goal is that you want a privacy-focused phone. Whether Google makes money or not doesn't matter to the goal. Has nothing to do with you liking or not liking Google...Google is a "don't care".
They start their list with "GitHub Sponsors (credit card)", then list five cryptocurrencies (Bitcoin, Monero, Zcash, Ethereum, Cardano, Litecoin), two of which have "We aren't looking for donations of tokens, only Ethereum [resp. Cardano] itself." Then Wise Quick Pay, then Local Bank Transfer (providing the Wise bank details for Belgium, UK, US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Hungary, and Turkey), then PayPal (in CAD, USD, EUR, GBP – pointing out the PayPal fee), and finally Interac e-Transfer. I wonder whether there's a reason for this order?
Also, PayPal's fee, as described, is fairly steep:
> PayPal charges a base fee of 30 cents and 2.9% of the donation amount within Canada. There's an additional 0.8% fee for donations from the US and 1% for other countries. Currency conversion adds an additional 4% fee as opposed to the usual PayPal conversion fee of 3%.
They collect much more personal info than necessary. Know your customer laws (KYC) require collecting a ton of personal info like phone number, address, face scan. Some have facial recognition in their buildings.
Many use insecure 2FA methods like SMS which allows sim swaps. Their apps and websites often contain extensive fingerprinting and trackers. The also ask for permissions they don't need to function just to get more data about you.
They share and sell that info by default. In fact, it seems they are required to.
They use that info in non-privacy preserving ways like targeted ads based on your purchase history.
All transactions are stored for too long (many years). Transactions are analyzed by AI.
They file reports to the federal government when they see something suspicious. Like using cash or buying medical care that's "high risk". Extremely few of these reports are acted on. It's mass surveillance—surveillance of everyone without a crime having been committed.
This is your private info that the government should need a warrant to access, but by requiring the bank to do it, they created a loophole through the 4th Amendment.
Here's from someone who works at a bank (apparently):
>Investigations can also be initiated on flawed pretences. For example I once had an investigation started because a teller was being racially insensitive to an indigenous woman.
I donate £10 a month to a rotating set of causes and Graphene OS is one. However they did recently say they have plenty of funding and need to start spending it. Ive tried and tried but I can't find the x post now
I would if I could even use their OS. Pixel phones are not available in my country and to import them is to pay 3x the amount I would spend on another phone.
This is surely the closest to a solution we have, IMO. An alternative to the Android-iOS duopoly that involves futzing with cables and command lines is never going to go mainstream. By contrast, a vertically integrated FOSS(ish) hardware-software stack might eventually get to 5% market share, like desktop Linux. At which point companies and governments will be forced to take software freedom slightly more seriously. That's my optimistic take.
https://proxysto.re/en/ sells GrapheneOS phones, with worldwide shipping I believe. They do donate a portion of every sale to GrapheneOS. However, you're recommended to install GrapheneOS yourself and not buy it from someone else, so that you know it hasn't been tampered with.
You can verify it was installed correctly using boot hash+attestation+factory reset. Much easier to just install yourself though. They have instructions for verifying.
Many services sell phones with GrapheneOS preloaded. Can be easily verified but no benefit for most people so it probably doesn't glow.
Proxysto.re seems to list good services as well and minimizes data. Accepting Monero is positive for their trust as well.
I've been to the store personally. Seemed alright. I can't prove their stuff isn't tampered with, but it's an ordinary store run by a bit of a privacy/self-defense nut.
You are asking if a partnership with Fairphone would bring in revenue for GrapheneOS.
Fairphone would need to design a new phone with hardware that meets the security requirements of GrapheneOS, which is what Motorola is doing in the announced partnership. There is the development cost, and then the new phone hardware would be more expensive than the Fairphone 6. For Fairphone, there is the question of whether the cost of developing this new phone will be recovered in sales of this more expensive phone.
Would Fairphone give GrapheneOS a big enough share of the profits to fund the port of GrapheneOS to this new hardware and pay for the share of the costs of the monthly software updates? Otherwise it wouldn't reduce GrapheneOS's need to fundraise via donations, which is the subject of this thread.
I don't know if Motorola is offering any cash to GrapheneOS, but they are a famous enough manufacturer that the partnership will raise the profile of GrapheneOS and help them be more successful. By contrast, I'm not sure how many people have heard of Fairphone but have not heard of GrapheneOS. The only reason I've heard of either project is through tech social media. Retail outlets in my area don't sell Fairphone and local mobile operators don't offer Fairphone hardware. But these guys do offer Motorola.
In summary, I'm not sure a Fairphone GrapheneOS partnership makes financial sense for either project, even if it sounds great from a tech nerd perspective.
In all honesty, I first found out about LineageOS while looking for “pure Android”, then GrapheneOS when I wanted more sane privacy defaults and only then I learned about Fairphone when I started looking for devices to run GrapheneOS and discovered that it would need a Google Pixel.
Fairphones have very poor security at a hardware, firmware and software level. They've shown complete disinterest in making devices meeting our requirements.
Fairphone is closely partnered with /e/ and Murena which have repeatedly claimed GrapheneOS mainly benefits criminals and pedophiles. They've also said that about hardened devices in general on several occasions. They've falsely claimed GrapheneOS is mainly used by GrapheneOS. That's part of years of misleading people about what GrapheneOS provides to promote their products. Fairphone stood by them on this.
It's very relevant the context leading someone to post this thread. /e/ and Murena directly got involved in attacking us during the attacks on GrapheneOS with misinformation in France by a national law enforcement agency. Many of the claims made to attack it closely resemble years of past attacks by /e/ and Murena falsely framing it as being for criminals and not suited for regular people.
Wow I didn’t expect you guys to reply to my comment. Really appreciate you sharing the insights about Murena! I don’t like EU’s stance on privacy at all, it’s a ticking time bomb that WILL be used by malicious political parties as they come into power. But it’s pretty low to embellish your project like that.
I only discovered GrapheneOS last year when I decided to reduce dependence on big tech and started migrating use cases one by one. Looking forward to purchasing a Motorola phone to use with GrapheneOS once it launches.
I only know about differences between LineageOS and GrapheneOS and I think you guys have the better model for the average end user. It inspired the design for my self hosted cloud infrastructure.
But also you can just install your own keyboard app. They will likely make a replacement version eventually, it's planned to replace the stock apps that are bad.
Everyone I've ever encountered say something like this and then switch to Android cease to have any noteworthy complaints after the first month. There's a transition period for sure, and then it stops being an actual problem.
What apps? Everyone said apple has the best apps but I've not found that to be the case. The apps apple develops sure, but Android as a wonderful foss app community.
Neither of those is a privacy or security hardened OS. AOSP is much more private and secure than the desktop Linux software stack and GrapheneOS greatly improves upon it. GrapheneOS does not promote Google services. /e/ always gives privileged access to Google apps and services and ships with a bunch of Google services active default. GrapheneOS doesn't come with sandboxed Google Play and doesn't connect to Google servers by default.
We have a non-exclusive partnership with Motorola Mobility to bring GrapheneOS to their next generation and later devices. This is necessary because non-Pixel devices don't provide the updates or hardware-based security features we need. GrapheneOS supports the latest available Pixels and plans to add support for future Pixels alongside our partnership with Motorola, which is not exclusive and does not preclude having additional OEM partnerships.
/e/ greatly reduces privacy and security compared to the standard Android Open Source Project. /e/ has repeatedly claimed hardened devices mainly benefit criminals and pedophiles and have falsely claimed GrapheneOS is mainly used by criminals on multiple occasions too. That's very relevant to the context leading to someone creating this thread.
You don't have to install Google Play Services at all. If you have to install it anyway, then Graphene's implementation seems a lot more mature than microG or any other solution out there for /e/ OS.
That's the thing - I do prefer microG approach (or spoofing it altogether).
However, ideally - we should strive to have a generic interface (for location and push) to which (privacy preserving) implementations could be provided (akin microG) instead of saying everything is dandy and just propping up Play Services more "because there is nothing wrong by having to install them and we sandbox it"… meh…
https://www.givesendgo.com/letsamgo
It's important he beats his charges to prevent setting an unfavorable precedent for digital privacy rights.